yaytime: computer advice

dave roman (

yaytime) wrote,
@ 2008-02-18 14:56:00

computer advice
Raina and I have been stalling on getting a new computer for a while now.
We currently have an emac with a 1GHz Power PC G4 and only 640 MB SDRAM running OSX version 10.3
It's still chugging along but we know its days are numbered.

So fellow mac users out there, we are wondering, should we get a:

iMac
-Cheaper, All-in-one, similar to what we are currently using.

Mac Pro Tower
-More $$$, possibly faster and more reliable??

We mostly need it for photoshop, microsoft word and the internet. Possibly a bit of playing around with iMovie and InDesign at some point.

Please share any hands on experience, and comparison shopping thoughts!
Are they about to release a new version of one of these computers in the next 2 months that will make us regret getting one now? I hear we'll have to get all new software because of the Intel chips :/

(Post a new comment)

	skullyflower 2008-02-18 08:02 pm UTC (link)
	I think that the imac will do you just fine, unless you get into heavy duty audio/video processing, I think that the imac will server you just fine. (Reply to this)

rstevens
2008-02-18 08:04 pm UTC (link)

I do all my work on a Macbook Pro 2.4 and previously used an iMac 2.16. Unless you guys have become super hacker 3D animator gamers since I last saw you, there's no need for a Pro tower. My current machine can do CMYK trapping on a 400 dpi 12" Sunday strip in about 5-10 seconds. That's the slowest thing it does.

Save on the machine and spend that money on RAM, Photoshop CS3, a Cintiq, or other secondary monitors. (all Macs save the Mini support dual monitors out of the box, though the non-pro ones require a $20 adaptor)

I'd recommend avoiding the cheaper Macbook and the Mini, as those don't have real video cards.

People who sketch directly on the computer may disagree and say to go with a tower, but that's only if you're used to flitting around like a drawing dervish on 600+ DPI drawings.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

ali_wildgoose
2008-02-18 08:13 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, the main thing I was thinking about, as I was considering this issue, is that they're so regularly working with images meant for print. Having a half-dozen 1200dpi comic pages open at once can be a real drag on a slower machine...

I completely agree about how souping up an imac with a shitload of RAM and getting the best possible processor would also be an excellent way to go.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	rstevens 2008-02-18 08:20 pm UTC (link)
	Word to that. The slowest iMac on sale now is probably about 15x faster than their eMac, at least! (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	yaytime 2008-02-18 08:28 pm UTC (link)
	Thanks guys. Yeah, I would hope that anything out there would be faster than what we have! And yes most of our art files are between 600-1200 dpi! At one point I was coloring my Flight story at 600dpi CMYK with multiple layers but had to downsize everything to 300dpi because of the insane lag times on our home machine. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	robotswana 2008-02-18 08:06 pm UTC (link)
	The iMac should be fine, especially if you load 'er up with more RAM than you think you'll need. As for WHEN to buy, I always check http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/ which looks at each product line's release history and tells you whether you should buy now or wait for new models. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	2ce 2008-02-18 08:28 pm UTC (link)
	Wow, thank you; I've never seen that page. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	yaytime 2008-02-18 08:28 pm UTC (link)
	Thanks for the link!! That seems super useful. (Reply to this) (Parent)

ali_wildgoose
2008-02-18 08:11 pm UTC (link)

hmmmmm

iMac --

I've used these at both of my last two freelance jobs, running processor-heavy programs, and had them chug along just fine. A high-end imac with as much RAM as you can fit into it will do anything you need it to, and do it well, in a very space-efficient way. The main problems with imacs, in my experience, is that you really can't upgrade them past a certain point. Also if there's a problem with, say, the screen, you're fucked in a way you wouldn't be with a desktop machine.

Tower --

I think that if you can afford it, you should go this route. It may be gratuitously fast right now, but it'll last you a much longer time, be easier to upgrade or fix when needed, and you're not tied to a built-in monitor that may or may not have problems down the road. It's a LOT of computer, but especially if you're thinking of doing video editing it's probably worth it. Five years from now, you'll still be perfectly happy with it, whereas the imac may not age nearly as well.

Edited at 2008-02-18 08:14 pm UTC

(Reply to this)

	ztoical 2008-02-18 09:25 pm UTC (link)
	I got an iMac back in october [treated myself to the 24"] and I love it. Use it mainly for Flash work, photoshop/illustrator, and internet and can't say anything bad about it (Reply to this)

nenimo
2008-02-18 09:32 pm UTC (link)

Rosemary (

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Rosemary (<ljuser="piratecore">) has a huge iMac and we have Mac Pro Towers at school that are pimped out to the tops. Between the two of them I've never really noticed much of a difference even when working 11x17 with 400dpi.
I personally like the iMac for it's huge screen and cheaper price but if you have the cash then the Mac Pro Tower isn't a bad investment.

If you have to buy some software like CS3 or something then I might be able to get it cheap at my school with my student discount. Just let me know if you're interested.

(Reply to this)

mr_cow
2008-02-18 09:47 pm UTC (link)

hey dave! i've been using an iMac that i bought about three years ago for uh.. three years now. and it's been great and i love it buuuuuut... i'm thinking i need to upgrade to something a little more powerful lately. photoshop tends to be very sluggish or non-responsive at times because of my ever increasing details, file sizes, and MOSTLY brush settings. something about those custom brushes that call for more processing power. the imac is going to seem like a great upgrade at first when you get it, but i think after a year or so you'll be wishing you guys went with the tower. so if you can afford that, i'd go with that. specially if you get more and more into imovie.

(Reply to this)

hey, big spender

verabee
2008-02-18 10:22 pm UTC (link)

I think that a tower would be overkill for your needs right now, buuuut in a few years you'll be really glad you have it. Like Alison said, imacs aren't as upgradeable, and you'll wind up buying a replacement much sooner.

If you can swing it, I'd recommend getting a refurbished tower and a nice little dell lcd monitor (those are getting cheaper by the minute, keep an eye out for promotions). Refurb is totally the way to go; you can get a sweet mac pro for the price of a brand new imac. Check this page in the mornings and eventually there'll be a 2.0gHz mac pro, which is what I got. I added two gigs of aftermarket RAM and it's the best computer I've ever had. <3 I felt like a glutton at first but I don't regret it at all.

Oh, and if you guys are remotely considering any kind of wacom product, if you buy one you can get cs3 for half price.

(Reply to this)

2ce
2008-02-18 10:30 pm UTC (link)

I hear we'll have to get all new software because of the Intel chips :/

Here's the basic rundown, in case you don't end up getting it elsewhere:

OS X apps are either PowerPC only, Intel only, or Universal, and current Intel Macs can run all three. It's just that PowerPC apps get run through an emulator, so they're slow.

You probably have less PPC-only software than you think, and most of what you do have will either be replaced free with the computer or run just fine under the emulator. But if you're not using Photoshop CS3 yet, you'll want to include the price of the upgrade in your new computer budget. CS1 and CS2 will still work, and they'll be faster than they were on your eMac, but not by much.

You might also want the new MS Office, but maybe not. The one big big warning is that new Macs can't run Classic apps. So if you happen to have ANYTHING important that opens with an old OS 9 program, you might want to find some time this week to figure out how to convert it into some other format.

Edited at 2008-02-18 10:31 pm UTC

(Reply to this)

kyubikitsy
2008-02-18 11:39 pm UTC (link)

This is my husband's rundown and why:

Mac Pro Tower

1) With 2 quad cores You'll be able to do a lot of heavy duty graphics / video crunching. Also I doubt you'll need a new machine for at least 3 years with this.
2) While the new iMacs have beautiful industrial design, they are horrible for color proofing and print work. If you are planning to do any type of print work, you will want a separate CRT display to do your proofing.
3) iMac maxes out at 4gigs of RAM. Ram is cheap. Buy as much as you can and stick it in the MacPro...lots of room for RAM upgrades
4) Hard drives are cheap and there are 4 bays inside the MacPro. Use the extra bays as redundant backup or extra storage space. This is invaluable because it's all inside the machine
5) If you plan to use a Cintiq, be forewarned that the iMac may not be able to drive it at the resolution you want using DVI. Currently I have a 24" iMac and it cannot drive my Cintiq 20wsx unless I use the analog VGA connector. With the MacPro you'll be able to add any monitor you want and drive it at any resolution as well. You can also add more cards to drive more external monitors if you wish.

Overall, if I could do it again, i'd opt for a MacPro. It just makes more sense.

As for the software, you will probably need to upgrade no matter which one you buy.

As for any new versions being released... maybe not for a good 3-5 months? The processor speed would most likely be upped first?

Edited at 2008-02-18 11:41 pm UTC

(Reply to this)

amegoddess
2008-02-19 03:01 am UTC (link)

You guys should check out any Comp USA's in your area. I just got an iMac core dou 2 for 10% off the list price and Apple care at 40% off. So that might be a good deal for you guys. I haven't started my iMac yet as I'm waiting for Leopard disks from Apple to show up so I don't know how good they are. But it's a step up from my 500 Mhz G4 mac that JUST won't die. Also the screen is F***ing awesome and pretty.

-Diana

(Reply to this) (Thread)

amegoddess
2008-02-19 03:07 am UTC (link)

The iMac screen has this super rich deep color too it. The viewing angles on the screen are really good so pretty much anywhere in the room the screen is easy to view and clear. But the color is so nice better then any other mac screen they make pretty much. Also it's nice that there's no extra computer bits to clutter up the work area. Not sure if this would be a good fit or not.
-Diana

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

amegoddess
2008-02-19 03:30 am UTC (link)

Hmmm, well looking through the comments where people suggest you pick up a bigger more upgradable machine over the iMac I have some minor concerns on that. Having own a top of the line beast of a machine I noticed that I waited to upgrade probably 2 to 3 years longer then I should have. My operating system and raw power had already gone past it's due dates but the machine was so damn durable that I just got to a point where I couldn't upgrade to as fast and quick as the newer machines. Everything I use all the time had been replaced and I'm probably going to have rebuy a lot of my software for the new system.

The giant beast tower systems are really good don't get me wrong but they cost about double the price and you'll still eventually end up needing to replace them even with the ability to push the upgrades further then the cheaper systems. Eh, it's all a toss up. The big systems might be best if you plan to trick that thing out to the max and use it for really hard core stuff. Cause you really can only push the iMac so far. I think the best you can do is 4GB of ram and 2.4 mhz core due so if you need more then that I'd go for the tower but if you don't need more then that the iMac might be a better deal. Pros and Cons. I wish you guys luck with the computer huntings. =]

-Diana

(Reply to this) (Parent)

chrisschweizer
2008-02-19 04:15 am UTC (link)

I've had an iMac for nearly five years, and have had almost no problems with it. It has more than enough power and reliability. Stay away from the powerbooks, though... betwen my dad, my sister, and me, we've killed probably seven powerbooks since '01.

I LOVE the new iMacs, and was going to use my first Crogan's check to finally upgrade... but our car died and we had to get a new one, so no new computer for me. But if YOU get one, I'll just (temporarily) live vicariously through you guys.

(Reply to this)

	mothos 2008-02-19 05:09 am UTC (link)
	I have a new iMac running CS3 with no lag but I keep my usage kind of light. The one suggestion I can make is if you go iMac, go with the 24". The 20" has a lower quality screen that lightly washes out the image near the bottom and deepens colours at the top. It's subtle, but if you're picky about colour, it's noticeable. (Reply to this)

lonebeatnik
2008-02-19 05:24 am UTC (link)

iMac, maybe with a couple of external hard drives (Firewire 800 preferable)
most of your old software should still work on it fine. i've had very few software problems on our Intel iMac, though i am very happy i upgraded to CS3. then again, i still do most of my work on my cripplingly obsolete quicksilver powermac g4 tower (single processor, ow!), so who am i to be telling you to upgrade?

(Reply to this)

debbiehuey
2008-02-19 06:45 am UTC (link)

Ooh, I've been creeping closer and closer to being on the market for a new computer as well, so I will be keeping an eye on this thread when that time comes. But I've been daydreaming for a new computer in the meantime and I've narrowed my choices to a Beast Tower (MacPro) and a MacBook Pro. I kind of think the tower would be overkill, but at the same time I'd be more confident that it would last me longer because I could upgrade it and such. I've been riding my G4 Tower since 2000 and I wouldn't have been able to tolerate it if I weren't able to upgrade it with more RAM, extra hard drives, etc. I still love it, but I'm afraid it's starting to finally deteriorate. The things I don't like about The Beast Tower is that it is huge and someone told me it is loud. Also, I wish they had a slightly lower price range. A MacBook Pro would be nice for its portability, but not sure how long it would last me. Personally, I am wary of the iMacs because they seem to be more susceptible to problems and less upgrade-friendly. Ah, what to do, what to do...

(Reply to this)

owlyfriend
2008-02-19 11:17 am UTC (link)

I have a dual g5 tower that I paid 3 grand for back in October 2004.
I'm still using the machine today and although I may upgrade soon it's only because I need more mobility.
I'll probably get a macbook pro when the new ones come out... hopefully any day now.
This is the site I recommend - http://www.mactactic.com

Before that I had an ibook... which I thought would fit my needs... and I outgrew almost immediately.
I vowed to never again buy what I needed but to buy way more than I needed.
At the time I ran OS 9 and the X revolution left my ibook in the dust and pretty soon I couldn't run any apps. Is a revolution like that likely to happen again? No. But you should still buy more than you need.
Time is money to you guys so don't scrimp. But, I highly recommend you buy a refurbished model from Apple. It's good as new, maybe slightly behind but not usually... but supplies are limited and change daily. I've always bought refurbs or with an educational discount. If you can get that, than do that too.

Get a tower with at least 2 gigs of ram and as much storage space as you can afford. You can use an external drive for backups and you can expand internally. It'll grow with you. You don't have the time or money to buy a new machine every year and your eMac is proof of that. Get something that'll last you because you'll need it to last. It won't be cutting edge longer than 6 months. Then in a year it'll be old and in two it'll be ancient. Notebook s and iMacs can't be upgraded as much and honestly neither can a tower. You can't replace the processor... that's why you need more than you think you do.

Good luck! Buy middle of the road, not the basement, not the crazy fastest.
If you really price the imacvs. the G5 the difference won't be a big as you'd think.
probably 500 or so. That's inconsequential for the amount you guys use your machine.
You will need a good display as well. The Apple ones are too expensive. You can look here to find something better for less. http://www.dealmac.com I'd also heartily recommend a Cintiq. I bought a 15" in 2002 for $1200 and it changed my life. Those are also available refurbished if you look hard enough. I got my new 21" in September of last year for $1,500.

Remember, you're gonna use this thing every day for the next 3-4 years. choose wisely! And I know the imac is tempting but don't even consider anything with a glossy screen. The strain would kill your eyesight and we beat ourselves up enough as it is. ;) Email me if you need any more pointers!

Also, most of your apps will work with Leopard. Not Photoshop 10. I had to upgrade to CS3 but Leopard is sooo worth it. The speed is incredible.

(Reply to this)

	jeremytinder 2008-02-19 02:41 pm UTC (link)
	Those new glass screen iMacs are amazing. I like to go to the Apple store and just stare at them. I actually have an eMac too, but a slower one than yours. I can't believe it's still going. I color my comics on it. (Reply to this) (Thread)

owlyfriend
2008-02-20 03:36 am UTC (link)

Pffft! Whatever, Jeremy! :P

Naw, actually that's a good point! ;) Get what you can afford and don't worry about it too much. Throwing alot of money at something doesn't always get you more. I work with a million layers and huge files generating at least 100 megs a day so I need a machine that can handle it and not take 2 hours to save each version (like my ibook did). Price it out and then divide the difference over the number of days you think you'll own the machine and see if it's worth it. Also I love technology too so the expense was justified... but everybody's different.

I don't think the glossy screens are good color matching for print work but a lot of it is what you're used to. Besides the printer inks can vary alot so it can be a non-factor. Most of it just comes down to what feels right. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

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